Thursday, November 4, 2010

D'Oh Canada

HANA is committed to giving horseplayers a voice. Part of our job entails shining a spotlight on industry practices that are anti-player.

Every player I have spoken with this week is excited about the Breeders Cup. This year it is held at Churchill Downs, one of the most takeout friendly tracks in North America.

With this year’s Breeders Cup fast approaching, I’d be remiss as HANA’s President if I didn’t point out a decidedly player unfriendly policy being carried out by Woodbine against Canadian players.

If you play this year's Breeders Cup through HPI and are fortunate enough to hit a trifecta or superfecta for example, you can expect Woodbine to pay you off as if the takeout rate was between 25% and 27%, despite the fact that the takeout for these wagers at Churchill Downs is 19%.

That's right. If you bet this year's Breeders Cup through HPI and hit one of these wagers, you can expect to be paid significantly less than if you had made the same wager at Churchill Downs or through a pari-mutuel ADW in the US. For example, if a trifecta pays $2200 at Churchill, the Canadian customer will only receive a little more than $2000.

We at HANA find this policy deplorable. We know that you as players feel exactly the same way.

Rather than just call attention to this in a write up, we at HANA would ask you to let track management at Woodbine know how you feel.

Why not take the time to write them an email - or better yet an old fashioned letter - voicing your thoughts? Phoning them is also an option.

Woodbine’s contact info is shown below:

Woodbine Entertainment Group
P.O. Box 156, 555 Rexdale Boulevard
Toronto, Ontario, M9W 5L2
Telephone: (416) 675-7223 (RACE)
Toll Free: 1-888-675-7223 (RACE)
Internet Comment Page:

Jeff Platt
President, HANA


Anonymous said...

I'm not defending Woodbine in any way, but the Pick 3's are not subject to this larceny. Only Tri's and Supers are "taxed" more.

Eg. Nov 4/10 CD race 3 payouts as per equibase chart:

$2.00 pick 3: $178.60

Woodbine payout for $1.00 pick 3: 89.35.

89.35 x 2 = 178.70.

Canucks are actually getting an extra dime (due to breakage?).

$2.00 trifecta: 259.80

Woodbine payout for $2.00 tri: 230.00

Ok, now that stinks.

$2.00 super: 825.40

Woodbine payout for $1 super: 375.55. 375.55 x 2 = 751.10

Ok, now that stinks also.

Tom said...

Just to get this straight. A bettor makes a wager on a Churchill Downs races and cashes. The money bet actually goes into the pool, and Churchill pays Woodbine based on real track odds. Woodbine keeps some of it and gives the rest to the customer.
Can't Woodbine see how wrong this is? What about the Canadian government? This just isn't right.

HANA said...

Anon, the prices on the HPI site for the pick 3 in race 3 show $82.75. You may want to double check the numbers.

Anonymous said...

hey Hana,

I was using the site to get 89.35. Which site did you use for the 82.75 ?

Does the payout vary by province also I wonder ??

Race 3
Finish Pgm # Horse Win Place Show
1 1 Constabulary $12.90 $5.30 $3.50
2 5 Cool Lion $3.00 $2.60
3 4 Kesagami $5.60
Wager Runners Payout Carryover
$2 Daily Double 8 / 1 $48.50
$2 Exactor 1 / 5 $37.70
$1 Pick 3 8 / 8 / 1 (3 of 3) $89.35
$1 Superfecta 1 / 5 / 4 / 2 $375.55
$2 Triactor 1 / 5 / 4 $230.00

HANA said...

The payoff may vary from region to region.
Here is what someone sees from the Niagara region:
Race 3
Finish Pgm # Horse Win Place Show
1 1 Constabulary $12.90 $5.20 $3.50
2 5 Cool Lion $3.00 $2.60
3 4 Kesagami $5.50
Wager Runners Payout Carryover
$1 Daily Double 8 / 1 $24.25
$2 Exactor 1 / 5 $37.70
$1 Pick 3 8 / 8 / 1 (3 of 3) $82.75
$1 Superfecta 1 / 5 / 4 / 2 $382.15
$2 Triactor 1 / 5 / 4 $234.20

Very interesting.

Anonymous said...

Hana....that is very odd indeed !! I'm out on the West Coast, so maybe it is a provincial thing... ??

I noticed you guys have a $1 DD? Min. bet for us here is $2.

HANA said...

Apparently, all tracks and jurisdictions can set their own rates.
The rule is crazy everywhere because there is absolutely no legitimate justification for ever giving a customer less back than track odds.
It just goes to show how customers are abused in Canada, everywhere.

Anonymous said...

NO, all tracks and rates DO NOT set their own rates. In the US, outlets use the same takeout rates as the host track.

Canadian pari-mutuel law requires the use of Canadian takeout rates for co-mingled pools. That's why net pool pricing is used.

And don't blame Woodbine for that either, blame Canada.

HANA said...

Anon, that is hogwash. Woodbine sets their own rates. Just take a look at any super or tri payoff for Kentucky or California and it is consistently the same lower price which they give out to their customer.
If net pool pricing came into play exactors, for example, would pay off differently....they don't.

Recently Woodbine announced they would pay the same as track on Pick 6's and Pick 4's, where they didn't before at tracks that had lower than 25% takeout. So yes, they are to blame 100%.